Ukuran video: 1280 X 720853 X 480640 X 360
Tampilkan kontrol pemutar
Get an EXCLUSIVE Nord VPN Deal 👉🏻 www.nordvpn.com/pilot It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! 👍🏻
It is supposed to be pronounced CoimbathoorAnd thiruvananthapuram
@Sharon Cassell in aborted take off you have runway in sight may be less space available but aborted landing or go around is mostly because of runway not in sight or you are not aligned when you find runway at last moments
@ACHAL BHOIR an abort takeoff is different than abort landing but it still involves a go around.
So what do you have done in this situation? You need to start including that in these types of videos. I probably would have just ditched in the ocean but that's probably why I'm not a pilot.
@Mentour Pilot Please make a video on ALASKA 126
You asked what happened to the Crew? Well the airline itself was under investigation for corporate malfeasance around this time. It shut down operations in 2019 and as of today there are some attempts to revive it. Corporate frauds / difficulties have an impact down the line. Airline companies in such difficulties endanger thousands of innocent lives and ought not to be allowed to fly until they straighten up and fly right - literally.
@Knirin first off, India is not south east Asia. So you have lost your credibility with the demonstrated lack of knowledge of geography. Second, it is actually the world. Literally has about the same safety records comparing to the North American and European aviation markets.
@Daniel Jose Among Southeast Asia maybe, definitely not the world.
@Stettafire then india is not a country either
Dear Petter, I experienced a go-around due to low visibility a week ago and, thanks to your channel, of which I am a proud Patreon supporter, I could explain to my partner what was going on and why it was good for our safety. We ended up landing on the opposite runway at the second attempt. A bit of surprise, but no panic ☺️So, thank you!
The first time my husband experienced a go-around he was upset because the pilots hadn’t let us know what was going on. I said, “Obviously something didn’t go to plan, after he gets done cussing he’ll talk to us”. I knew the captain did it because it was safer that way. Turns out a plane ahead of us had landed and was just sitting on the runway. It’s happened to my husband a couple times now so he doesn’t panic.
Yeah, you'd think watching all these vids would make you more scared, but it actually makes me feel safer. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I can rationally assess the danger of something and my level of fear corresponds to what i think is the level of risk according to statistics. Therefore, I'm not a scared flyer at all. Flying is very safe. In fact, your biggest risk is sitting on the sofa (cardiovascular disease) and driving or being a passenger. Your risk levels go exponential if the driver (including you) is intoxicated.You're much more likely to suffer some other medical emergency on a flight than experience injury or death from the flight itself.
@Danny D Yep, listen to @Stephen Torrey!Also, I think it'd be a pretty rough landing, I don't think AP can perform a flare quite like a human who has visibility of the runway. I'm no expert though.Good for an emergency like this case though, if they had diverted to Bangalore as planned which had ILS!EDIT: Looks like higher category ILS is suitable for full autoland, but Wikipedia's Autoland article has some kinda harrowing paragraphs about a "ballistic" phase which makes me not at all surprised that usual practice is for pilots to take over once they have visual, which is allowed to be rather low when the instruments have brought them down.I think maybe about 300 ft high or 90 m? Not much.I'd be interested to learn more about guidelines on when autoland is used but my impression is that it's mostly emergency or demonstration and not routine.
In the past I would have freaked out if I was on a plane that had to go around. Nowadays I would know it was safer than trying to land in less than ideal conditions.
Wow, that's awesome that all of went well and you knew what to do in that certain situation.
Thank you for making this video. The pilot was hailed as a local hero and got mixed reactions from media. After interrogation by airport authorities, both the FO and captain were suspended temporarily. The airlines shut down all its operations a few years back and have only recently revived the brand once again. Meanhile, both the pilot and FO have resumed their duties with separate airlines aand this whole incident has been made into a bollywood thriller movie named 'Runway 34'😀
Thanks for the tip. The FO in the movie was a lot prettier than in Mentour's vid, but that's why bollywood has never crash landed.
@KSparxAnd if RAT doesn't deploy you won't have any lights anyway. 🤣
Yeah, found one critic on FB about the guy: "Why you didn't choose to land in bangalore is still a mystery and bad judgment"
I'm going to hope there was song and dancing in that movie. Probably not, but an Indian musical about a plane running out of fuel would be _awesome._ 😎
@KSparx Literally what my instructor said.
Man I’m so glad they landed safely in the end. I truly embraced myself for the worst 😅😅
As a pilot, I have a rule of thumb for these kind of situations: you can either decide what to do on your own early on, or the situation will end up making the decision for you - and you likely won't be happy with the result. The captain did the latter and they avoided an accident by the absolute narrowest of margins as a result.
I was a flight attendant for 17 years on the 737 800. I had one incident that happened to be going into my home city where we had five go around. There was no communication from the cockpit and by the time we landed I was almost in tears
@Mentour Pilot: Your fuel calculation reminds me of my very first solo traffic pattern in a very small propeller aircraft. To compensate the missing weight of the flight instructor, the instructor told me to fill up all tanks to maximum. Just after takeoff the tower questioned me how long I'm able to stay airborne. My answer was: "2 hours plus 1 hour reserve". After that the tower announced me that the runway was blocked and the airfield was closed because the aircraft with glider in tow which tried to take off direct after me had an accident. So I had to make my first cross country flight just from the spot without any preparation. I neither had a gps navigation nor a paper map, this was about 0,5m in my back, unreachable for me. There was a simple traffic pattern planned and not a cross country flight. So they diverted me not to the nearest but the most easy to find airfield. As I arrived there, I remember the grandfatherly voice of the air traffic controller and the full service after touch-down. Kudos for the instructor who told me to fill up all fuel tanks to its maximum even for a simple traffic pattern.
@Eragonawesome I was scared at the flight because I thought the whole time: "Don't get lost in space. Hope I'll find any airfield to land." As I saw the airfield on arrival my mind changed rapidly to: "You are going to land this thing now, there is no question whether it will become good or bad, it'll be good!"; full self confidence to make it. There was not even a short moment for me to think about the fact that there is no flight instructor beside me. Do it!Lessons learned of it:- Whatever may happen, fly the aircraft at first!- Fight tooth and nail to the bloody end.- Sweat in practice safes blood in emergency.
I can't decide whether I'd be excited or scared shitless in that situation, glad to hear it worked out for you though!
Now there's a real adventure, must've been exciting
I have a lot of sympathy for the FO. He did tell the Captain, that diverting to an airport with no ILS was dubious. Instead, the Captain ignored him and backed them into a corner, triggering what was just a desperate fight to survive. Hey Mentour, how about doing a video on Air Europa UX-911 at Katowice. Now, there was a crazy flight. Report is on AvHerald.
@burt2481 ooooookay… 👀
@kavan helps About?
@burt2481 aww, bless you.So confused
@burt2481 What did you not do with the time you've spent writing this comment?
As a former FR cabin crew I can confirm you can hear everything from the forward jumpseat. The crew and probably first 1-2 rows of passengers would have heard the bank angle and ground proximity warnings. I would have been terrified!
If you know your geography of these 2 airports, it’s weird to designate Trivandrum as an alternate to Kochi because the are both on the western coast which has the same weather system. Western ghats (which lies north to south just 50 to 100 kms parallel to the coast) is the major deciding factor here. Anything on the east coast would have been perfectly fine. Coimbatore or Madurai would have made so much more sense.
why didn't the ground tell them to expect same weather at their newly chosen alternate ?
Yeah. It is as if they absolutely needed to land somewhere in the wet and green state of Kerala and not in the much drier Tamil Nadu.
One of the best things I learned from my Flight Instructor was: The three most useless things you can have while flying are 1.) Runway behind, 2.) altitude above, and 3.) Fuel in the fuel truck...
😂 Fuel in the truck!!!
@D Smith It's not like in your car where filling up the tank doesn't make much of a difference. You've answered your own question: Taking more fuel means the plane is heavier and burns more fuel, which is more expensive. So they try to take as little as possible. So the answer is as simple as: it costs money. In addition to that planes have a maximum landing weight, which means you can't have too much fuel leftover when you're coming in to land.
i like " the most dangerous situation in aviation is to be out of airspeed, altitude & ideas at the same time"
I like that
@D Smith more fuel = more weight. More weight = heavier plane. Heavier plane = cannot land. That’s why there’s such thing as fuel dumping mid flight. It wouldn’t make sense to have planes fuel dump every flight. That’s thousands of dollars down the drain it would run the company bankrupt and don’t even mention the environmental aspect
It's good to see a video from Mentour featuring an incident, albeit an unfortunate one, from my hometown, Trivandrum! On the plus side, it was a safe landing. One interesting thought as someone who frequently flew that route is that usually these flights would be carrying Indians working in the Middle East (NRI) visiting home on leave for a short duration and being diverted from Cochin to Bangalore (another state) would be a bit more difficult to accept than being diverted to TVM. Not sure if this played any part in the incident. As always, thanks for yet another awesome video :) 🍻
I think being diverted a bit further away is preferred over dying, by all passengers. And while they made it this time, they came very close to not making it. I would almost say it was pure luck.
Mallus ivdem Happy to see ♥️
Checkout movie Runway 34 if you haven’t already. It is based on this incident.
ഉറപ്പായും യാത്രക്കാർ കച്ചറ ആക്കും. അതും പൈലറ്റ് കണക്കാകിയിട്ടുണ്ടാവണം !
I was a passenger on an overnight flight from Heraklion, Crete into London Gatwick on a 737. There was fog at Gatwick and we were in a holding pattern for several hours. Then we were told that due to fuel and fog we had to divert to RAF Marsden. The aircraft flew through some steeper turns and then we landed, but it wasn't the RAF base, our pilots had got us into Gatwick. They told us afterwards that they had seen a break in the weather used it to safely land the aircraft. Since we had been diverted to an RAF base does that mean that we had become a fuel emergency?
@Gordon Sinclair About to reopen.
Not really, it could have been a filed alternate airport
@Dan Earl Maybe they followed a ghostly Mosquito on Christmas Eve?
@Ralph Furley if it was Marsden it was a heck of an emergency
Probably RAF Manston/Kent International a joint military/civil airport, now closed.
Oh my, the people in the cabin must have been terrified. I cannot imagine a flight crew making such bad decisions that left them with the only alternative to crashing was performing a Hail Mary blind landing. And then for the same flight crew to be allowed by their company to fly out the same day is unimaginable. There is no way they would have been mentally and emotionally fit to make that flight. Excellent review of a very bizarre situation!!
@c2757 Sounds like the old "Fall off a horse, immediately get back on it" approach. But I was at a horse camp one summer where one of the girls fell off a horse. The camp director noticed at dinner that she was sitting quietly, not moving, holding her arm. He took her to the emergency room and, sure enough, she had a broken collarbone. Getting back on the horse would have been near-impossible for her that day. I have no idea if she ever rode again. Years later, an avid cyclist I know was run off the road by a careless motorist. He got back on, but other riders noticed he was not doing well. By the next day, he was barely able to walk. Turned out he had a fractured knee. He told me he was not going to ride in the street again, because it was too dangerous-- as if the next time something like this happened, it would be the death of him. I was sad about that, but he still had to go through the medical healing, physical therapy, etc. Not long after the doctor released him, he got back on the bike, and has ridden on the roads. In our area, bike lanes are hardly worth the effort, so you have to be willing to ride on the roads, or else just stay at home with the bike on a trainer.
@priyanka khuntia In a few years it can be the other number. All counties except Canada use magnetic pole as reference for runway number, and it moves a bit each year.
@James Hodson And basketball...
@Stephen Sorry, but after they made the choice (yes, the wrong choice, but one decision) to go to that alternate airport, what else could they do? What? 'Ah but they shouldn't have done the third go around at the first airport', you might say. But was the weather at the chosen alternate going to make their landing any easier then if they had not?'They would have landed with more fuel'. No, they would have gone around again an extra time at the alternate instead, and had to land finally for the same reason they did when they actually did: once they were out of fuel and in the location nearest to them, because no other option was left.Ultimately they did do a visual landing. And ultimately they did fly back, and land, as far as we know, safely.I'm not denying that what went on wasn't good, but it is clear that the pilot knew how to aviate throughout.
@Stephen Yes, but first they landed at another airport, at which point their company must have known that they landed at the wrong airport. That is when the company authorized them to fly again towards their originally intended destination, Kochi.
I am totally with you on this. The decision to make a third approach (unless there is a big change in circumstances) is almost always wrong. If you do make a third attempt you are probably heading up an emotional blind canyon, the temptation is very much to take things a little further, go a little bit lower, shave a bit off the minima, plus you are now getting very tired. You need a break. Count the accidents that have happened on third approaches, I can think of a number, it is not a safe place to be.I also completely agree with the folly of committing yourself to a non-precision approach when the fuel is getting that low. Apart from anything else a modern aircraft can do an Autoland off almost any ILS. It will not be approved if the installation is not certificated, but it will almost certainly work. At the very least as someone said to me years ago "the crash will be on a runway close to a fire engine!" Of course, you will have to justify yourself afterwards, but the interview with the manager/CAA official (without coffee or biscuits) is a lot better than being dead.
So 10+ years ago I was a flight test engineer on the 787-8. One of the tests we did, had the scenario of a pilot that was determined to land while visibility was below minimums and broke through the clouds offset to the runway. We started the series of tests at the minimum call out and offset by 150ft. On each landing attempt, we did a full yoke turn to align with the runway and a full yoke turn to straighten back out. We would progress down another 25 feet to start the maneuver each landing attempt. Starting with the attempt at 250ft AGL, the pilot was banging the yoke so hard we could hear it over the intercom. The air flow over the wings during the turn roared, and the engine strake vortexes were huge. We were getting bank angle warnings on every attempt. By the 150ft attempt, the pilots were getting very concerned at making the plane level by touch down, as we needed to bank almost 45 degs to make the slide, and this is an airplane with 90ft of wing on each side. We did one more round at 125ft and the pilots called it off after that, it was too low, they couldn't level the plane for touch down, and the wing was getting very close to the ground in the turn.Now to hear that a pilot actually tried to do this with passengers onboard is bonkers. We did this test to make sure there were no control feedback issues during the maneuver, but to do it when you have options to go else where is not good.
@Andrew Steitz Thanks, Andrew 😊
@Captain Quirk excellent points
@Nabi Rasch Not really. Well, a little bit -- but only a little bit. In hindsight, he should've chosen to divert to Coimbatore rather than Trivandrum. But he was being given bad information all along the way. He was told not once but twice that the weather at Cochin was fine, when it wasn't. And then he was later told -- again, not once but twice -- that the weather in Trivandrum as also fine for landing, when in fact it wasn't. You can't keep giving a pilot inaccurate and incorrect information again and again and again and expect him to make good decisions. __________________________________Approaching Cochin:7:32 “ATC reported that the weather was quite nice in Cochin...this was more or less exactly what the pilots expected.”And then 48 minutes later...8:54 “As they were descending on the glideslope, it became more and more obvious that the weather was much worse than expected.” Initial weather info for Trivandrum:10:12 “The captain checked what the weather was like in Trivandrum and it was given as 3000 meters, which was well above the minimum requirement for a VOR approach...” Updated weather for Trivandrum:14:55 “ATC told the pilots that the latest weather for Trivandrum was 3000 meters...still perfectly okay for a VOR approach.”But then...15:58 "At 06.30 local time... Trivandrum ATC told the crew...that the visibility has now gone gone down to 1500 meters, and that's a problem, because the minimum visibility to start the VOR approach for that runway was 2100 meters."
@Captain Quirk You're missing the point. The Captain created the situation.
But he _didn't_ have any other options.
In the late 80s we had 3 go arounds at Cork, Ireland due to high winds (we had departed from Stansted). We were diverted to Shannon eventually and landed there. The irony was my in-laws lived approx 8 miles from Shannon and it was our usual choice, but due to the holiday season we had to settle for Cork. Unfortunately, my brother-in-law didn't see the funny side after he'd driven 80 miles to pick us up from Cork :0/
Man, that was intense.Were the airports considered at fault for giving bad weather reports, or did the weather just unexpectedly change quickly?
I was a cabin crew for 9 years in Russia and many times found myself being stuck in the “waiting for better weather” circles around different airports as well as missed approaches (usually due to heavy snowstorms or insanely dense fog during winter in Siberia and other parts of the country). Now that I retired I found your channel and I realize how many times I downplayed/didn’t understand what was going in the cockpit during those times 😅 thanks for your videos they are very informative but if I was pax I’d be scared to fly after them 😂😂
i'll check the weather before i fly
Circling, waiting for better weather reminds me of Flydubai flight 981. Also called the Rostov Airport Disaster. I think they circled for three hours before trying to land and losing control of the aircraft in the process (or rather, losing control of the situation).Glad you're OK.
@An W I’m glad you’re safe. Obviously there are a lot of things to worry about in this whole war but certainly knowing the aviation industry, one of the things I was afraid of was Russian flight crews and passengers potentially being forced to fly unsafe aircraft as the situation with replacement parts deteriorates over time. I’m glad you won’t have to do that.
@SuperGenericUser I don’t think it’s dangerous, I’m just saying that I’ve been in situations when we had those circles and missed approaches together and I’m sure it’s not a nice situation for pilots. As of Russian aviation, it was in a great state before February as well conditions for both cabin and flight crew were better than for those in Europe (I met many of colleagues over the years)
@Nerys Ghemor thanks that means a lot :) not everyone here is brainwashed ✊🏻 no, I left industry exactly a week before the events and no regrets.
While the poor decisions which were made once the conditions were known are down to the pilots, one has to question the original weather conditions which they received en route. Given the number of aircraft which were having to make go arounds the conditions at Cochin were obviously much worse than they were being told.
I'm not in the aviation industry but Mentour's content has me hooked. Even though I've subscribed to the channel I keep checking if a new video has come out
I know in the OLD old days of aviation this kind of landing wasn't uncommon, when ILS systems didn't really exist. There's stories about DC-3 pilots flying in so low they're barely above the powerlines and counting the hay bales in the fields to know when to descend to the runway after half a dozen go-arounds, can't imagine doing that in something as big as a 737 though...
OH Wow!This one got my heart rate up just watching!My biggest fear in flying is not being able to see the runway when coming in for a landing, and here they had that situation 7 times in a row!If I was a passenger and understood what was going on, I probably would have had a heart attack!
Thank you for taking us through the fuel calculations, it was fascinating!
@Mentour & TeamYou keep getting better and better!It *really* helped me that you went over the fuel numbers at multiple moments in time.That really put into perspective how much (/little*) fuel they still had left!(if you'd just talked about the thousands of kilograms, I only could have thought of family cars as a proxy unit of measurement - but because you told us how much fuel gets used, and by saying how much fuel remained after each go around, even passengers like me get a sense of just how bad things were)Thanks for continuing to raise the bar!It's truly *the* best aviation channel _worldwide._
This was a tricky weather situation. With the reported weather, I would have considered the first ILS approach to be a "piece of cake". What followed next is something we all can learn from. Well presented, Petter! A year ago, I made an ILS approach into an airport where the weather was reported to be good visibility and clouds at 1,000 feet. The approach minima was 200 feet. But when we reached minima, we could not see the runway and had to go around. Later on, I learned that ATC at that airport would always report the clouds to be at 1,000 feet because they could not measure it...
That is a very good point and it kind of gave them the false safety that they will land. My personal limit is 2 approaches and go to alternate.
In regards to the unfathomable "do the next flight" ... I've had an experience of similar, and understand what they felt. When something goes wrong under your "command", and danger is narrowly averted, there is this desparate urge to "normalise". The conscious brain that knows standing back and taking stock is the thing to do gets overruled by a a feeling of "if I carry on normally, this will all just be low fuss". If they stood back and took stock, then "silly fuss" (their brains are rationalising) would have to happen, like finding other pilots etc. Much "easier" to "make it go away"... carry on, nothing to see here. Having observed myself do this (until I caught myself) I can really relate, and wonder if aviation has come to grips with this. Just like when you are a little drunk you can't judge your driving ability, when you've had a close call, you can't judge whether you should carry on.
I did 2 go arounds due to the tailwind on both sides of the runway and the tension started to get hot in the cockpit.I am wondering how this crew felt after 6 go arounds?
Petter, always enjoy ALL of your videos, but this one was exceptionally good! The manner in which you narrate these videos, at times, makes me feel like I'm actually in the plane either as a passenger or on the flight deck. Keep up the great work. It is very educational.On a completely different subject, but aviation related, I was wondering why there have been so many small craft incidences in the last 12 months, here in the U.S., especially, Single Engine planes. We have seen single engine planes land on the highways on more than one occasion or had to make emergency landings by the beach and even in lakes! My uneducated guess is that the pilots are 'rusty', or the planes are a little 'rusty' or the maintenance has been a little 'rusty' in many of these instances due to the Covid pandemic and lack of routine. However, I would like to know what you think.
A wonderful explanation for the almost inexplicable! I enjoy your informative and researched items very much and I hope that you know that you have inspired some of my young pupils into learning more about the physics of flying. One young man spent hours making a short presentation about thrust and forces on the wing which he explained to his classmates - all off his own iniative.
I find it very interesting that the captain of this flight demonstrated good forethought in taking on a little extra fuel in Doha but oddly enough lost situational awareness as the conditions changed for him and was mentally locked into options that actually increased his risk co-efficient.He put everyone at risk and landed this aircraft with 'seat of the pants' skill because he had run out of safer options, due to poor decision making (multiple go arounds) earlier in the flight. No way to fly a passenger aircraft. Military fighter jet? Perhaps okay, not passenger plane. And that incident report was atrocious!
Am from Kerala, I use to live in Qatar and even traveled in Jet Airways quite a lot between Doha to Calicut/Kochi back and fourth,I think the reason for why crew prefered Thiruvananthapuram as alternative to Bangalore or Coimbatore is because they (Or their company) didn't wanted to disappoint their passangers by landing them in a different state than Kerala, Due to huge diversity of India people prefer to be in a distant airport in thier own state than to be in a airport at a different state.(Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu state and Bangalore in Karnataka state)
True , especially when passengers are ignorant enough to force govt to keep two dangerous airports active despite better judgement. Both Kozhikode & Mangalore are tabletop runways without space for adequate overrun distance. I am sure diversion to Bangalore or Combiatore would have resulted in passengers creatingb headache for the airline. To put it in a civilized way 😂There must have been three factors at play here1) potential cost to airline by a diversion 2) unruly & unhappy passengers3) loss of situational presense of mind on part of both pilots eventually forcing them into a hole .
Lol, what are you talking ? A pilot could be flying today to Kerala then off to Kolkata ,then to Gujarat and then to Delhi ,it is nothing to do with state or convenience about the passenger destination but it is about safety at the time of emergency, and i am sure at that moment the pilot's wasnt thinking about states but definitely the state of fuel and how they can land the flight safely .
@9876karthi When it comes to aviation in challenging weather, that should not be a factor. Being alive a far more important than what region one comes from. He's not driving a bus that h can simply pull off to the side of the road when he runs out of fuel.
@John Doe "Discontent from passengers"? Hell, I prefer to be alive and, on the ground, safely, under the circumstances. I understand what you are saying, but the VERY TOP PRIORITY should be to get the aircraft down safely when facing challenging weather.The pilot who showed great awareness in Doha when he was taking on a little extra fuel suddenly lost all sense of good judgement by:1) Making one extra attempt in Cochin and then 2) Electing to go to an airport that had similar or worse weather conditions instead of picking Bangalore as the safer option. Ultimately, flying is about life and death. The pilot was not driving a bus full of people where he could just pull off to the side of the road if he ran out of fuel. Better to have someone discontent than dead. Right?
Also if the pilot is from this region, the regionalism must have played a role, and explains why he choose to do so.
My dad is an ex navy aviator, and his one piece of advice that i always follow has been - Never change a plan at the last moment. Diverting to VOBL as per briefing , would have saved the pilots a whole lot of trouble
I think that wisdom applies in many situations not just aviation!!
Exactly. Plan the flight. Fly the plan.
This kind of thing is something I think about whenever the limits on visibility for a landing come up; you can go around or divert up to a point, but eventually you _will_ have to get back on the ground one way or another. Though doing so visually in such poor visibility seems insane. At least at Cochin they had the ILS, which _in theory_ would allow for a zero visibility landing. That they managed to get down safely in the end really is impressive, and you can't really blame them for turning off the GPWS when they didn't have enough fuel for another go-around.
*Thanks for watching send a direct message right away on the above number,,,,*
Well, the pilots certain created a mess for themselves, but I’m still super impressed that they were able to land with that kind of pressure (and fly again like nothing happened). It an absolute last chance to save 150 lives and they took it. The aircraft must have burnt fuel faster carry the captain’s balls
I have to admit, I had a few go arounds in my life, but my cargo never complained 😀Yeah, this was kind of crazy situation, I wouldn't want to be in it as passenger or a pilot. Safe flying!
Hi Mentour, I have just completed a LAME type course on the 737NG . I watched a lot of your videos as a break from study, they really helped with my understanding of cockpit functions especially radio nav and auto pilot. Thanks.
The only time I was on a diverted flight was my first trip down to Antarctica (specifically McMurdo on Ross Island, MCM) out of Christchurch, NZ (CHC). This was on a Kiwi Herc (New Zealand Air Force LC-130 Hercules). After about a week of delayed flights waiting on replacement parts for the planes, we finally mustered for departure. We took off, and I think the weather conditions at MCM were marginal with the crew hoping the conditions would improve. Well, the conditions didn't improve and we ended up boomeranging back to CHC, not uncommon during the Antarctic season. But, scuttlebutt had that it was the longest boomerang flight up to that point. Because we had gone so far south before deciding to return, we ended up first landing in Dunedin (I don't recall the airport abbreviation) to top off the fuel tanks otherwise we wouldn't have enough reserve by the time we returned north to CHC. After refueling we proceeded back to CHC without incident. In all it was a long day of flying just to go nowhere. As I recall we mustered for flight the next morning and reached MCM without incident (or at least without any incidents reported to us PAX).My biggest regret of that flight was in Dunedin. Because of the refueling, all of us PAX were ushered out of the Herc to a safe distance from the plane. But, I forgot to grab my camera before disembarking so I don't have any pictures of the beautiful landscape around the Dunedin airport. 😞
This exact incident happened to me when I was flying from Kolkata (CCU) to Port Blair (IXZ). We made more than 4 approaches into Port Blair only for the pilot to say we don’t have fuel to return back to Kolkata, we will try our best to reach Phuket, Thailand as it’s closer. It was one of the most terrifying and nerve wracking incidents of my life.
Pilots often have a sense of humor. I remember one apologizing for our flight leaving late because of a piece in one of the engines being defective but not-to-worry because he'd decided that was okay.
The structure of your storyline and how it builds up suspense through digestible bytes of information before presenting the conclusion is so engaging. Thanks for doing this great effort to educate us.
Awesome to hear! Thank you for supporting 💕
Petter, that was amazing narrative. You are a wonderful story-teller. Looking at the flight report, this was not a spectacular event. The 6 go-arounds plus a safe landing sounds interesting - almost ho-hum. But… the way you put the viewer in the pilot’s seat was riveting. Real drama. There was no way that I was going to bail when you paused for a commercial. Thanks - a better video than anything on Netflix. At the same time, I learned lots about the procedures that are in place to manage situations like this.
Oh god, as a fellow aviator watching the events unfold gives me chills down my spine
I remember being a college kid flying home into Cleveland in about 1984 or so and we did several go-arounds due to bad weather. I am glad I didn't understand the significance back then!
If I need to choose any pilot in the world who will be my host on my flight, I will always choose you. Your explanations are very clear, detailed and interesting at the same time. Your voice is so pleasant to listen and u seems like a calm person with amazing energy. So glad to discovered this channel
I started following air accident investigations when I worked at sea as there's no better documented cases for understanding how the human brain reacts to stress. This case is a perfect example for everyone in all ways of life.
Looking forward to joining u at the sea
@Julia If you are only interested in assigning blame then ultimately you are seeking a scapegoat. Get rid of the scapegoat, problem is solved. But in reality it isn't. I've made mistakes at work, some serious - but the important thing is to have processes and procedures that limit the damage that mistakes can do.Witness for example the furore over the Colston statue in Bristol. He wasn't honoured for slavery but for his generosity. Everyone in Bristol was in on the slave trade yet along come a bunch of campaigners thinking that by removing his statue (and name) they have somehow fixed the problem of slavery. Meanwhile modern slavery still exists.
Well said. Could’ve happened to anyone. We make many bad decisions in life but they also teach us to make better calculated decisions
@Julia Hi, I don't understand your view, so maybe you can explain in an other way so that I can. What I see is the reports aren't there to assign blame but to to figure out responsibility. In my ears and understanding I hear that nobody is to blame anybody but the whole report usually figure out what the different processes that were responsible for the accident or incident. I have (after some months of tutelage of Mentour Pilot and his "stories") is these reports are made to show what things were responsible for the particular incident. If you assign blame nobody is going to want to talk to the investigators and they will make up lies so they won't get in trouble. In this case who should we blame. Would that be the Captain and/or the First Officer that couldn't get the plane down until the 7th try? Or do we blame them for not taking more fuel, or for changing an different alternate airport? Are we to blame the meteorologist who gave the flight crew the weather report that they relied on when deciding to change alternate airport and deciding on how much fuel to take ombord. Are ATC to blame for not being clear enough or early enough with the change in weather at heir airports. Is the airline to blame because they hadn't told the flight crew serious enough that they weren't to switch alternate even if the weather was good enough there and make them load more fuel and thereby raise ticket prices? You see where I'm going with this. I would suggest that finding out what was responsible for an accident or as in this case luckily incident, would make the rest of the aviation industry safer for all. If we use this approach first of all we start out with an open question that everyone can feel safe enough to fully participating in. There might in the end be someone or a bunch of someones that have to pay the consequences of their actions but maybe it won't because in that case there might have been so many other contributing factors that led to the incident that there may be nobody to blame. See my example above. Had there been a proper report with all factors that went into making this mess, India's equivalent to the American FAA might have said that Jet Airways must require crew to have at least one alternate airport with an operative ILS for every night landing and any landing in bad weather. They might have said that during monsoon season the meteorologist must issue new weather reports every 4 hours not every 12, 18 or 24 or how old the weather report the flight crew relied on when calculating fuel, and have to instruct the flight crew to so. Had they had these policies in place that crew wouldn't have had to resort to Hail Mary (or it's indian equivalent would be, I don't know nearly enough about cricket or football (soccer) to begin to speculate). They might even have come to the conclusion that one or both of the pilots were complete incompetents that needed a lot of retraining in the flight simulator, or indeed should spend time in prison for criminal negligence. If that was the case, then that would be a consequence of their action, and not in my view because they were to blame. I guess what I'm trying to say that by placing blame in my view, you would get 1) fewer perhaps blameworthy people telling the truth, and 2) not getting a teaching situation for all aviation participants, and thereby not making the number of plane crashes go down. And as an end user of air travel, I definitely prefer the information to spread as far and wide as possible. I apologize for my wordy comment. I seem to have a very hard time making short ones even if I do try. Even so I would very much like to understand your way of thinking on this, and I would be very grateful for learning your thinking. I might very well have misunderstood things. Are you in any way American? I don't mean to be rude, but sometimes I seem to not see the difference of what mostly is the wording used between the American culture and mine. I'm European and English is not my native language. Sometimes it helps to tell people that I'm a Virgo, but I have no idea why, and I'm not a believer myself. Yes those people laugh at me. A lot Yours, Ann
Sir, Thank you for this film. Jet Airways was a very old and trusted reliable and good quality airline and was my favourite airline of choice to fly within India before it unfortunately shut down in April 2019. Just three days ago, I saw the accident episode of Avianca Flight 052, in 1990, that started with surplus fuel, but then was placed into multiple holding patterns for hours due to bad weather near New York, before running out of fuel and crashing resulting in the loss of many lives. So I was wondering what happened to thus flight. Good to know, it landed safely. Thanks again for an excellent film.
Look, I am just happy that Petter is making videos! In our house, it's almost like waiting for a new movie to come out! Really great insights, in-depth analysis and replies from others that only enrich the understanding. Awesome.
Kochi and Trivandrum are close airports. Entire Kerala can be cloudy during monsoon. So it would have been wiser to go out of the state, to Chennai or Bangalore crossing the Sahya mountains, which keeps the clouds to Kerala. Pilots should know the geography. It's not bad if they asked passenger's opinion!
I was just chatting with a friend yesterday who was in a situation where the pilots announced that they are out of fuel and had to land no matter how the weather was. Bad weather was the primary reason for the mess. Thank good they landed safely.Thanks for these awesome videos bro. I am not a pilot but love your videos. You are a great storyteller. :-)
From just common knowledge about weather patterns especially in the June-August monsoon time in that region, you'd more likely have poor weather in TRV if the weather were bad in Kochi than in Coimbatore or Bangalore because the other two lie on the leeward side of the mountains and the former two lie on the windward side. Maybe airlines should help educate pilots on these things to aid better decision making...
@Samarth Vinod That would have been the smart thing to do instead of endangering all those souls on board.
@Todd Smith totally agree. However, the captain made that decision after 2 or 3 approaches. After the 6th, he didn't have that option any more, he had to land no matter what. There are other comments why BLR would have been much better. He should have followed the saying, plan the flight, then fly the plan.
@realulli I'd rather a problematic diversion than roll the dice with a blind approach after 6 missed approaches.
@Todd Smith Someone else explained the situation in another post. That flight was probably full of contract workers going home from the Emirates and delivering them to Bangalore instead of Cochi or Trivandrum would have been very problematic for them. Really not sure if the pilot was thinking of his passengers here.
@Mentour Pilot yes,and Bangalore being a far newer airport than any of the others has a longer runway and facilities to aid the pilots.Havent heard flights being diverted from KIA in years.
I am in ♥️ with this newfound channel! No speculations, no dramatic music, no nonsense. I love simple, easy to understand style of the narrative yet I've learned so much new from this video.And of course once you see mist on your route, you have to take into consideration it might turn into a full blown fog, so an airport providing instrumental landing system approach should be an absolute priority when choosing the alternate option. Tack så jättemycket!
I was thinking the same thing about less flights because of covid and if it would impair judgements all around, etc.
This seems like an extremely diligent pilot. I'm starting to wonder how that title is related to this story.Okay I'm getting it.
Whenever my destination was a bit marginal, I would pull up the ATIS on the ACARS for my alternates (if I had one or more) as well as other nearby usable airports before descending into the destination. That's because in the event of a missed approach, I need to know exactly where to point the nose of the airplane to head toward an airport where I can safely land. In no case would I enter a hold and then try to figure that out. Furthermore, if I were that FO, I would grab my flight kit and suitcase upon arrival, and exit with the passengers. I would not be returning to the aircraft with that captain. I flew professionally for 43 years and never landed with less than legal reserve fuel, and never had to return to the gate to add more fuel (except for the time when ATC gave us a re-route at the end of the runway which would have required more fuel than the tanks would hold). If fuel management is more important than "completing the mission" then things like this won't happen.
I can't imagine the stress the crew and passengers must have felt. Closest I can get is from my own flying experience in my small single engine plane in good weather when I was still new with it. I had 3 go arounds at an unfamiliar airport because of bouncing my landings. The feeling of being trapped in the air is like nothing else. My 4th approach was successful because at the suggestion of ATC, I left the airport environment and took a few minutes away to regroup before returning. That's with the luxury of fuel. This video's flight seems so much more terrifying.
I recall a Flying magazine "I learned about flying from this" item about a man who was ferrying a load of lawyers to a hilltop strip in a Cherokee Six. Weather deteriorated, icing made it impossible to hold altitude, and the localizer was telling him the wind was blowing him off course on final. He watched helplessly as, at full power, he descended toward field altitude... 200 feet above... 100 feet...field elevation... 50 feet below.... The wind had blown him to the side of the hill and he shed the ice before he ran out of altitude.
This is why I rarely flew anywhere where I did not have DOUBLE the fuel that I needed to get to my second alternate and make 3 missed approaches there. Now that is something that you can do in a GA aircraft that you probably would NOT do in a large commercial aircraft (the extra weight of all of that fuel might severely limit how many passengers (Revenue or otherwise) you can carry.
regrouping when possible is always a good choice. when driving a car and you dont feel good or angry, just stop, take some breathm close your eyes for a minute and go on. its always better to take a 5 minute break (when possible or just fly 5 minutes straight) than beeing 5 weeks in hospital and cause damage to others
I was sweating at 23 minutes in the video lol. God speed to those airmen and their persistence but holy moly that was too close. Great video as usual!
The way Mentour tells the story, puts me on the plane. And makes my heart race.
Yes, he's good.
Just imagine if you met him in person, and he was whispering stories into your ear.
He is a fantastic story teller
Thanks for the fuel info. I flew once as a passenger from Minneapolis to Denver. At approaching Denver, the captain informed us that there were heavy thunderstorms at Denver and possible tornadoes. We kept flying around the airport (I presume at a safe distance from possible tornadoes) for more than 45 minutes. It must have been close with the fuel at that flight too.
🔝🔝Thanks for watching.🔝🔝 messages right away i have something for you🔝🔝......
Jesus! This had me on the edge of my seat!! I was on the first ever 747 to land at Coolangatta airport Australia. I was flying from London Heathrow airport to Brisbane Airport. I was only 20 and had my son with me who was 18 months old but I had flown so many times as my dad was in the Air Force so we lived all over the world. The pilot tried to land the plane 3 times at Brisbane airport but the weather was so bad he couldn’t land the plane and we were running low on fuel. I remember the last decent into Brisbane airport he pulled the plane up at the last minute it was like the nose of the plane was pointing straight up to the sky. As I said I have flown so much but this scared me! The angle the plan was on. So we had to fly to Coolangatta airport to re fuel. Couldn’t work out why everyone was staring at the plane when it landed! Then the pilot said it’s the first 747 to land there. It was so scary and this is coming from someone who got flown out of Cyprus on an emergency flight due to the war that broke out over there. That flight was also all over the news! Still love flying!
Usually Cochin and Thiruvananthapuram have similar weather in an hour or so, thus usually it's a bad idea, to designate either as an alternate is probably a bad idea.By the way Peter, there was a movie recently called Runway 34, which is based on the same incident. I was gonna ask you 2 weeks ago, if you could make a Video on that, because it lacked a bit of technicalities and even before I asked, you had a video on the channel !Hats Off !
Well, I kind of understand the crew breaking the rules once they were really low on fuel and out of (good) options. It was a risky landing, but better risk missing the runway by a bit and land in the general area of the airport than to wait for the fuel to run out and glide into the city. I do not think that at that point they were able to "fly by the book". I think there should have been more emphasis on early planning and good judgement when the weather is worse than predicted at your destination.I absolutely cannot grasp that they were allowed to fly again the same day. I think that after such a stressful situation people need to take time to actually comprehend what happened. Otherwise they will be unable to focus on what they are doing next, they will be replaying what had happened in their minds.
As a passenger I was in a plane going round only once, but it was that unlucky time when I was getting dizzy during approach and was very unhappy to understand that it was not over from the first try, 😅
Its funny how this was such a quietly drama-free account of a potentially catastrophic event yet I felt really close to tears thinking about whether the pilots would manage to get landed safely or not. The tension is built by the provision of information rather than 'data' ie. being told they had X,XXXKg of fuel is 'irrelevant' until you know how much is needed and then it becomes the core component of the anxiety we can feel when it's critically running out. In way I agree with the pilots setting off again immediately because they're now on a success "high" of Adrenalin, Flight-Ready and I suspect filled with confidence rather than fear.
When I still was a flight attendant, i was on a flight to Faro. The weather was bad, a lot of seafog. The cpt briefed us about it in Brussels and we had extra fuel for it. Still, we did 3 go arounds. After the 3rd attempt I told my purser I didn't like it, pax became anxious as well. She told me that they would manage but that she was also worried however she didn't feel lile disturbing the pilots but I disagreed with her on the situation. I entered the flight deck and told the pilots that I felt that we were burning a lot of fuel, pax getting worried and that I felt that go around after go around would also make them tired and possibly less concentrated and suggested we would go to Sevilla. The cpt acknowledged this, told me they would try one more attempt and otherwise would go to the alternate. The purser now told me she was glad I spoke up and that she didn't have the courage. After landing the captain called for me. I expected a reprimand but he told me he was glad with my input and that it was a good example of good CRM. They had calculated fuel for multiple attempts in Faro but were unaware of how the cabin crew and pax felt. As crew member, always speak up if you feel something is getting unsafe. I also new that this wasn't to my knowledge according to our company procedures. We normally could try 2 attempts before going to the alternate if I remember correctly. I can't even imagine how the cabin crew and pax on 9W-555 have felt about it.
@Noel Browning I only ask people not try to show off.
@burt2481 for heaven's sake you asked some acronym questions and someone answered, the you went off at them? The audience here is very respectful and if anyone doesn't understand something, just ask - as you did - and someone will just answer it - as someone respectufully did. But it seems you werent asking a question, you were indicating that you believe you should be Mentour Pilot's producer. Then you accuse others of elitism! The irony.
@Ful Via Yes it was. Sabena just bought A320's and that played a factor in it. We had a lot of hired captains coming from other companies to supplement our own crews (pilots were still being trained on the type). They probably had different rules for the number of attempts they could make but it made me and the other cabin crew and passengers uneasy so I used CRM in the way I was trained to speak up in the interest of safety.
@Mark Debruyne 👋bien "joué". Btw, was it with Sabena? I miss them.
@Alexander Calder A troll becomes someone who does not share your opinion.
I couldn’t imagine the stress of being a pilot specially in bad weather. I’ve had a few boats and I know how stressful it is to drive a boat when the weather gets bad I couldn’t imagine being a pilot. I remember one day I was taking my boat out with 3 people it was a nice sunny day and all the sudden there were 10-12 ft waves and I’m in a 16ft boat, waves going over the windshield, people on my boat were crying telling me to turn around but they didn’t understand you can’t turn on a wave or we can flip over. I told them to put life jackets on and shut up. When we got past the break walls I finally had a chance to turn around and I went wide open in a wake zone till we got back. I tell everyone that gets a boat to do a ton of maintenance so u don’t break down and it’s reasons like this we could have died if my boat stalled or if someone that didn’t know how to drive. There have been other times a storm comes in and you can’t see the shore so you need to use the compass.
That was probably the most nail bitingly intense video I've ever watched on your channel .Not knowing the fact that they eventually made it down safety , I was absolutely certain that the opposite was going to be the case .As for again taking to the air , on the same day , that was unbelievable .Perhaps they thought they were blessed , and that they should take full advantage of their luck .Not a particularly sensible way to fly an aircraft !!!
If you ever publish content outside of the modern era, it would be great to see you do a video on flying tiger flight 923. A less commonly known/publicized story. You would do a fantastic job with it as always!
Wow. If I can't imagine their emotional state after 6 missed approaches. I actually feel bad for the flight crew. For sure they made some bad decisions, but I suspect that they were in a state of increasing stress and diminished decision making capacity as things got worse and worse. I suspect these were very good and professional pilots that manged to make worse and worse decisions as the stress level increased. Thanks for doing these videos. I would never have heard about this event if it wasn't for you covering it!
Man I cannot express how informative these videos are. I either learn something new or expand upon skills every time one of these episodes come out. And the production quality has increased so much from when you were just sitting at your desk using NTSB simulations and it gets better every video. Please never end this series.
@Tom Dooner The combination of laying out the facts, explaining them, and relating the story in the same light as it actually happened makes Petter's videos spectacular.
@Mentour Pilot I hope one day you are one out of business then.😬
@Tom Dooner lol.. thats what i thought.. he should become an investigator when he retires from flying
Yeah, wow. Petter put more effort into this one than the actual accident investigators.
As long as there are incidents or accidents that needs explaining, I’ll be here. Thank you! 💕
Thank you for your amazing videos. I wanted to ask if you could make a video on Ryanair Flight 4102 that got bird strikes in 2008 on the approach to Rome? There’s so much jokes about Ryanair’s famous hard landings, but as I understand this is probably not a very fair criticism as they’re doing it on purpose for extra safety. This incident in particular seems really impressive! There were 0 fatalities although the plane was damaged toSuch extent that it was written off! I understand there’s a final report on this one, so it would be very interesting to have your take on it. Thank you again
I had experienced an airline go-around recently. Was terribly scared when I felt the thrust as they went TOGA. Thought something scary was happening. Turned out the pilot on the runway was doing the checklist too slowly or something like that. Phew lol.
A go around is always the safest option.
I really appreciate your channel Mentour. Just a suggestion for a future case analysis: it would be nice if you covered the 1988 Wideroe Flight 710 crash in Northern Norway, known as the Torghatten Accident. All 36 people on board sadly died, one of them being my grandfather Jonny Eidissen, who was 46 years old at the time and whom I was never able to meet as I was born one year later.
quality has increased so much from when you were just sitting at your desk using NTSB simulations and it gets better every video. Please never end this series.
Amazing review and really it's a close save for the passengers bcz of pilots poor planning
Great video as always!Petter, I respect, understand and appreciate your viewpoint on not caring what happened to the crew because of how you are only dedicated to the safety regulations coming out of this, however I would argue that a part of safety regulations is also felt attached to the consequences for pilots and tower control staff, I feel it is to leave out information that can potentially make one feel safer while flying. How can we justify safety in aviation if we don't want to mention the consequences for the staff? For someone like me and without a deep knowledge of aviation and pilot training etc., I do get concerned after watching such a video to think of the potential of having pilots who does not face any consequences in the form of banning, imprisonment or simply just coaching or the like, especially for such gross and dangerous breaking of rules. To me, mentioning the consequences for the staff is important and valid and does not need to indicate blame or be done with blame, but is simply including an important data for the whole picture on safety and comfort within the field of aviation. I hope you understand
Flew a one hour 737 late evening flight (as passengers) that had two go arounds after attempted landing in marginal crosswinds. Then returned to the originating airport. Total flight time was getting close to 3 hours (for going nowhere). The worst part was my partner is hearing impaired, and gets severe ear pain, which was tough for three landings, and yet another the next day for resuming our travel. We heard that some other pilots from other airlines chose not to attempt similar flights that night. Two go arounds is enough thanks!.
Out of interest, as a novice, how does one determine the threshold of being an experienced pilot based on hours flown? Obviously there is a difference between 0 and 15,000 hours. But is there a difference between 15,000 hours and 20,000 hours?
I have been on quite a few flights but I don't remember experiencing one go around. But six in one flight?! That must have been horrifying.
Great video as always.Maybe you could cover the disaster of Königs Wusterhausen in 1972. It had its 50 year „anniversary“ this month. The aircraft was a Iljuschin II-62 and had a construction error.
Thanks again for this very informative video. We can learn a lot from these. Almost all of them give me a lot to think about! It is the human factor - not just in aviation. I watch each and everyone of these, thank you!I would like to offer additional thoughts to what Petter has said: Choosing an alternate: I believe it was unwise to choose one that was subject to the same weather pattern: Both are located close to the sea. In misty / foggy conditions it is not unlikely that both - regular destination and the alternate - experience the same visibility pattern. Once the one's got temporarily worsening visibility the other has as well: . They are positioned near the coast, not all that far from each other. Arguably not just bad luck but a decent probability for it.Add to this the sunrise situation. I would think it is general knowledge that there is a likelyhood the mist / fog - once it is there - can temporarily become more dense upon sun rise. Only briefly, just an hour or so ... of course just the very deciding hour in this incident ! ..., before the fog may or may not go away . But that is just the case here. I have learned this in theory and also experienced it around here where I live numerous times.To pick/redesignate an alternate further away from the shore line could have made all the difference. These are just thoughts to offer - I do not want to (and shouldn't) judge anybody. Of course live decision making can be harder than being "smart in hindsight" ... I am aware of that. Thanks so much again for all those videos.I do like the rule about doubling the minima on third approach.
We've been to Madeira this month and knowing there are go arounds quite common I felt bit curious but fortunately landing was safe and smooth. But if I was about to thought SIX go arounds id go mad I think haha...fortunetly they all are ok!
Must have been a really stressful situation for the pilots, going for visual approaches while barely being able to see outside your window and with fuel running out. Great video as always!
@Karting to LM as an Indian I can confirm this, we have been told to brush off things and move on! 😄
with the life style there.. it may just be another tuesday.. indians are no stranger to high pressure and competitive environment.. doesn't mean what they did was correct.. but likely.. the mentalities are different from western society..
@Golden Age of Dinosaurs you wouldn't be fit to fly after that then with the alcohol in you lol
Of course it was stressful. As is crashing and dying.In many cases of injury (especially sports like ski jumping) it has been advised to go back as early as possible to not let the fear of failure stop you completely.I have of course nothing to judge if they were calm enough to fly, but some people really stay cool as a cucumber under pressure and are not worse for wear. They likely did have the time to come down from any adrenaline …
I can’t believe they flew back to Cochin that day! I’d need at least a couple hours at the airport bar, lol..
Excellent assessment of the incident, Petter. As per usual.When the captain started doing blind turn-ins to find the airfield, my heart was in my mouth!Is it possible, in poor visibility like this, for a tower controller to use their radar to talk a plane down to the runway?
I've flown Jet Airways a few times, always had exceptional cabin service. Surprised to see that the company lacks with pilot training.Interestingly, I flew as a pax between Johannesburg and Durban in South Africa (SAA) every two weeks for several months, and I was very familiar with the approach routes to both airports as a result (always a window seat!). One evening, my flight from Durban to Jo'burg had a similar experience to this one.The pilot reported that there was a huge thunderstorm approaching Jo'burg airport, but that it would have passed by the time we arrived (about 50mins flight time).Upon arrival, however, the thunderstorm had stopped right over the airport, and the aircraft (I forget which one, but I think it was also 737-800) was thrown around like a cork in a stormy sea. The pilot tried hard, but it was not safe to land, so he aborted the landing and entered the go-around pattern.He tried three further attempts to land, each one in the same situation. Interestingly, I could see the same ground features through a hole in the cloud just seconds before the abort each time.We eventually abandoned the landing attempts and diverted all the way back to Durban, which was our alternate. I have no idea why they didn't try Lanseria (commercial airport) or Wonderboom (military airport), both very close by, or Bloemfontein, about 400km away and closer than Durban, but anyway, we returned to Durban.This was before Durban received the new airport, this was still at the old one south of the city. The usual approach was to pass just north of the city, cross the coastline, make a sharp right turn, fly over the city and harbour, and land directly.On this flight, they didn't even get close to the city. They turned right over the western suburbs, flew to the SW of the city, and turned again to align with the runway VERY close to the airport, touching town safety just seconds later.I still believe that we had no fuel left after that. I cannot see why else they would have cut the approach so much shorter over vast residential areas, rather than the usual over sea, city, harbour, and industrial areas.FWIW, when we finally did manage to fly back to Jo'burg about an hour or so later, the extent of the storm was evident - water (I presume from the front wheels) was lifted over the wing and passed the passenger windows! I'm surprised that they could land with so much water on the runway.
@realulli True, that. Bloemfontein is about 400km away from Jo'burg, would have thought it would be the logical alternative. Anyway, we're all safe, although I'm not sure how that matter was handled by the airline.
Alternate airports are not selected by proximity (selecting an alternate that is too close is dangerous, as it might have the same weather), they usually select an airport several hundred kilometers away.
More likely than having literally having no fuel the plane was at or below the minimum fuel level before approach or was predicted to go below that level. If the plane taxied under its own power after landing it still had fuel, however little.It is possible to land a plane with no fuel, as the various "glider" incidents show (Gimli Glider, Atlantic Glider, etc) and in that case you'd certainly fly in by the most direct route, losing altitude constantly. But you and other passengers would certainly have noticed how quiet the engines were.It's also possible to run out of fuel between touch down and the end of the landing roll, in which case the reverse thrust would not have been used and the pilot would have relied on the brakes too do all the deceleration. Another commenter has posted that that happened to them on a flight and the plane needed a tow to the gate.
Enjoying the channel and the videos a great deal - your love for your profession, for aviation safety, and for communications all come through very clearly in each video. I've only been subscribed for a short while, but I've gone through a lot of the back catalogue already.I've got a question about your day job, which you've explained a bit. My wife's a US army aeromedical specialist, so I'm more familiar (from her conversations) with their terms. Is your role similar to what they refer to as the "standardization pilot" role (if you know, of course)?
As always, high quality content. Really appreciate the hard work you and your team put in to produce these videos. A heartfelt thanks from me.
*Thanks for watching send a direct message right away on the above number,,,,,,*
As a passenger, this is a situation where knowledge is a bad thing! If I was on an airplane with an engine failure, the other passangers might be panicked, but I'd feel safe knowing the pilots had it under control. In this situation, I think the other passangers would be annoyed at the delays and worried about missing connections. I'd be wondering how much fuel we had left and fearing for my life!
@Raven what triggered your phobia then? If you dreamed of becoming a professional pilot, you probably read a lot about all the procedures and rules, so you should realize that all those are designed with human fallibility in mind. Just about all cases where making a mistake killed the crew were preceded by a string of decisions (you might call them other mistakes) that went against rules (written or unwritten).
@realulli I don't only look at incidents and accidents. I have long been a flight enthusiast, it was my dream to be a commercial pilot when I was a teenager. I have a number of books about flight history and engineering as well. I don't think pilots are reckless or stupid. I just appreciate that human error can line up with other problems and lead to a bad outcome. When I was younger I used to think there is no way human error will happen. Now I know better, and that's all.
@Raven Look into getting licensed. Flying is actually pretty simple. I think your mistake is concentrating on accidents and/or incidents. If you only watch Russian car crash videos you will fear driving as well. Check out the videos by Eric Gravel when he's learning to fly. There's tons of videos out there by pilots that explain what's going on. Pilots are not daredevils, they are very methodical and they do stuff in a very limited number of ways and/or patterns. Commercial flights will almost never fly the traffic pattern but use a straight in approach, but that's also because the pilots are using all available means to make the approach safer, that means they will fly an instrument approach even in perfect weather, while still looking out the windows.
I have a severe flying phobia and was basically told that the best way to improve how I felt was to learn more about flying. Big mistake. It's not fixed my anxiety at all. In fact what I notice is that the people who don't know much about flying are pretty chill (as I was before I knew too much).
@S.j. Whit Less than 0.1% of the landing attempts around the world. Do note it varies a LOT between airports and recurring weather. I'd bet there are airports the number is about 1%.
They made a Movie about this called Runway 32 recently, this video was more informative and detailed than the movie itself. I wish you can do a movie review of that here as well on what filmmakers got right and what they got wrong. Would be interesting to know for sure.
What are your thoughts on changing the alternate airport while in the air? It seems to me that unless there's a major change in the weather, or some problem with the aircraft, generally you should stick to the plan you had on the ground. While in the air, you have less time (and more pressure), and so I'd think that you'd usually want to stick to the plan you made back when you had plenty of time to plan.
I really like your insights to the situations you talk about. Please keep up the excellent work, though I also hope there's a decline in reportable events!I'm a wanted-to-be pilot with poor natural vision, and was a "professional" passenger before retirement. My first flight was in 1969, going off to college. Home for Christmas. On the after holiday flight, I experienced a missed approach from a window seat in the back rows of a 727 - full view of conditions, flaps and engine noise. First flaps set point, engine pitch change. [Starting approach - gotta be instruments, can't see the ground.]Came down through cloud layer 1 with another deck below. Flaps increased significantly as engines slowed more, felt the "sinking like a rock." [Oops! We've overshot the glide path.] Through the 2nd deck, now a third below. More power, less flaps. [Must have overcorrected, now we're below the glide path.] Into the 3rd deck, power to max, sudden HARD left turn. [I swear I could feel the back of the plane sliding wider than the nose, like a school bus sliding on an icy corner.] 2nd attempt was flawless. But never a word from the crew to the passengers. ["Normal" procedure, given the conditions; no cause to alarm the passengers.]25 years of flying for my job in the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s, and the only other significant event was an aborted takeoff (twice, 90 minutes apart, in a FULLY loaded - LA to Tokyo - 747). Flew the same equipment next day, about 15 original passengers, and 10 cabin crew. 😉
It appeared that the Crew were under duress to land ( Self induced pressure), because at the time, the company was in a financial mess. The third landing attempt with no improvement in weather was a mistake. That was their undoing. Maybe they were stressed. Thankfully, they landed safely in the end. Felt really sorry for them.
If I understood the situation right it was their last option. There just was no fuel for anything else.
Great videos I’m a big fan of your videos and the amazing content, as a pilot myself I believe there’s a lot to learn from these videos and the breakdown of the events help us to learn and make better decisions, however just a little question about the UTC time, isn’t Doha UTC+3 ? Again thank you so much for the videos great job and greetings to you and your entire team !
I want to thank you! I've always struggled when flying with anxiety , panic, and nausea. Thanks to your videos, I knew what was happening every step of the way from PHL to OHR to Kalispell. No fear, just fun!
*Thanks for watching send a direct message right away on the above number,,,,,*
Thanks Petter for a great video as always!!! I know some airports allow CAT III approaches - Would this have helped in this case? (at the original destination). I also heard of an auto-land options (CAT IIIc I think) -can someone elaborate on when and how this is allowed? Petter, can you do a video on the very interesting subject of auto-land?
I was a PAX on a domestic flight in Greenland on a DASH-8. The pilot made several go-arounds, and finally, we went back where we started from, and made a safe landing. I also felt that something is wrong.
I’ve had the “pleasure” of flying on 3 commercial flights that had to declare an emergency (engine fire, flaps failing to deploy and fuel) but I’ve never been on a flight that required more than a single go around (and only 2 of those that I remember). This would be terrifying as a passenger.
OP probably travels by air quite a lot.Maybe.😬
Please share your contact details, so that we can check in advance that you are not flying on the same flight we are planning to board 😂
Lemme know where you go, so I make sure to take another plane :D
Thank you Petter. Your videos always make my week. You and yours have one of the best IDclips experiences out there. Peace, love, and wheels up vibes from Northern California!
Landed with Ryanair in FMM on the 3rd attempt due to low clouds less than 10 years ago. Weather certainly didn't double on the 3rd compared to the 2nd. About 2 seconds between seeing the ground and touching down, and this on CAT I. So no clue what Mentour pilot is talking about regarding his airline's policy.
It’s frightening to know that it is the Captain’s decision in regards to fuel level and there is a potential for minimum levels to be chosen if benefit arises from economic pressures.